Coming back to your post belatedly although it might sound like I am, I'm not actually saying I want people to starve. What I'd like is for the choice (for young healthy people) to be to work or to starve. Because if that was the choice, no-one would starve! They'd all choose to work.
Originally Posted by munk
At the moment the choice is to work or not & there's often very little difference in lifestyle regardless of which choice is made. And in fact in some cases those who choose to work will very definitely struggle MORE than those who choose not to.
Eoin is right when he says the system is ultimately more to blame then the people milking it. However I don't think that absolves the people milking it, I think (as I've gone on ad nauseum) if you're able to do work - ANY work*** - then you should rather than live off others.
Eerything is degrees of course: someone who basically works their whole life but who might find themself between jobs at certain points can hardly be criticised for claiming whatever they are due. That's very different to someone making a conscious decision that they won't work ever, or that they won't work until their "dream job" falls into their lap.
***On that point, I think it's bang out of order the way people look down on certain jobs, i.e. all the recent furore over the proposed "forced work" or whatever it's called scheme. I've read lots of comments like "no way should an accountant be forced to clean the streets". Well personally, given the choice, I'd rather live in a world with no accountants than a world with no street cleaners! And what's wrong with cleaning the streets anyway? When I'm due to go to our local tip I'll often scoot round where I live with a black bag & clear up rubbish that's been blown or chucked there, simply because I'd rather do that than live somewhere that looks like a dump & moan about it.
Hi Fella, I have to admit what I said above was probably off the mark really, whoever above said they're both broken systems (tax and benefits) was probably nearer the mark. Mind you this is after watching that Tory public broadcast last night on Channel 4 (Trillion Pound Horror Story or w/e it was called) haha!
But I must admit the case they put for having less government intervention in there was very compelling, part of which would be to cut quite heavily benefits, which is essentially what is happening now... not quite sure they're ready to cut taxes as dramataically as was suggested on that programme though so who knows what will happen when there are no public sector jobs left because of the cuts for those unemployed to go into and no private sector jobs created to replace them. Work houses anyone?
I would challenge that it was a Tory broadcast! Certainly it put forward the case for less Govt which is the Tory way & not the Labour way, however it was suggesting things that are VERY different to what the Tories want to / will do. Abolishing VAT for instance - it was the Tories who raised that from 7.5 to 17.5 & now to 20.0. Also as Music pointed out, when it was highlighting that various politicians don't even know the difference between public debt & structural deficit, let alone how much each one is (& just how sobering is that btw), it did show up MPs of all parties as being equally unforgiveably ignorant...