A Sporting Life .. or The Power of Props
Just some random reminisces from a decade in this chore of passion of ours ... all "facts" are purely IIRC .. cant be arsed to cross-check tbh .. so any factophiles could maybe chill if Im a shade out. That said, tongue is firmly in cheek with the "headlines".
HOW I SOLD INFO FOR £800 WITHOUT REALLY TRYING
The year : 2008. The bookie : VC. The offer : "refund on 5-fold accumulators if one lets you down" Up to £50, one per day defined by last match settled (NOT bet placed). The Sting : All markets were allowed and VC had a market for under 10 goals at 1.001.
Someone on XXXX ( a depressing and anti social site ... the only other forum I was a member of then was SBR .. both pretty cut-throat affairs) posted that they would pay hard cash for +ev offers .. so, as VC had banned me that week, I offered him the above for £100 (sounds strange now but to our younger viewers, there was a time when it wasn't an assumption that people were gubbed at such books).
Within about ten minutes my empty inbox was full (literally, I had to delete some to read others) offering well over the £100.
Long story short, I re-posted to say I would sell to two people on receipt of £400 each via MB. Which I did and within an hour VC had pulled the offer .. this was maybe 1am on a Monday night.
I kept to only two people rule and even a week later I was receiving abuse/pleads .. some I recall are ..
"you messed up buddy .. but it would be -ev for me to tell you why"
"I know one of the guys you sold this to and he is re-selling it on the private forum ... he is calling you a chump .. I can give you £100 and promise its just me .. blah blah"
"One of the guys you sold it to just formed a syndicate on the private forum to raise the £400 .. he's selling shares at £50 each .. Ill give you £80, just me with one account mate" (*paraphrase)
Also, one of the people I sold it too claimed it was "a bet a day, Ill be banned before X" .. I pointed out you can have the last game up to 10 days ahead or whatever .. could do 10 "days" bets in 20 minutes for £500 pretty risk free freebets". Then he offered to use me as, and I quote, "a farmer" (ie gnome for him) coz "its not worth my time otherwise". lol.
The other guy I sold to wanted my phone number ... never knew why and never will now.
Got a few messages even weeks later just, well, saying I was a loser and sooo niave.
The two I sold to were happy tho .. which I was pleased about ..
That VC pulled it within an hour AND the emails, even then, were really hard-core .. we can forget there are some really heavy hitters who regard posting on forums as -ev. The ones I sold the "info" to had barely two posts between them on XXXX
Anyway, I'll post more but would love to hear anyone else's stories from their time doing this (not the "and luckily I scored a hat trick" ones though maybe).
OK, enough of this drivel. Cheers for reading.
Last edited by goroovy; 20/04/2014 at 08:54.
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thanked for this post
lol .. just went back to the site this morning to see if I could post some of the pm's I got .. all deleted now, which is fair enough after six years .. but did have two "new" ones (last was in 2012) asking to skype/chat. So glad sites like this exist, feel like having a shower after visiting that one again.
GOING FROM FIVER FUN BETS TO FOUR FIGURES IN FIVE WEEKS
The Year : 2004/5 The bookies : WH/Coral. The offer : Head-to-head. The sting : Bookie mis-pricing.
Two opinions I have which very few others share (I think) is that i. cup finals regularly produce disproportionately less shocks than regular games and ii. betting on 1X2s is for mugs. (Exceptions to the latter being, say, Lpool being underpriced thanks to our Asian friend until this season)
I personally find props to be a far better opportunity to get value. I find it easier to predict how a game will pan out (within a margin of error) than the result. The result prices are usually of no value whereas props can be seriously wrong.
Actually, Ive just remembered I was shop-gubbed in 2003 (Milan v Vigo ... read on t'internet at work how Milan had decided to send their entire first team squad to Japan for the World Club Cup ahead of that nights game .. rushed down with a crispy £50 note to get on Vigo at 13/2 and was delighted to see the coupon price hadn't changed .. they used to mark the rare coupon changes with a biro individually in those days .. went up to the counter and offered 6/4!!! Seem to recall I was even quoting legal stuff about shops having to honour advertised prices by law .. think she ... it seemed to always be women then .. let me have a tenner at 13/2 .. cant remember the result as I was, of course, on a lose-lose .. bet loses and Ive lost, bet wins and Ive still lost because I didnt get £50 on.
Anyway, Coral/Hills had mythical match coupons in 2004/5 which I thought then .. and still do .. were seriously wrongly priced. Theyd pair local teams to make a false derby but seemed to still price the higher league team too favourably ... eg West Ham vs Charlton .. and West Ham would be crazily short-priced even if Charlton were banging them in and West Ham were averaging a goal every two games.
Anyway, fun fivers grew to a couple of hundred and I was doing crazily well ... and then QPR played Forest and Coventry played Derby. Forest couldnt buy a goal then and were to be relegated, Derby were scoring and conceding like the Harlem Globetrotters and were pushing for a possible play-off place. Likewise, QPR solid at the back and Coventry. well, not. Yet, Hills had Derby as 7/4 to outscore Forest. Think Forest were still a glamour name then and relegation probably seemed ludicrous .. or something, cant explain the prices anyhow.
Stuck a few hundred on (which was massive for me) and then saw Corals were 9/5 (lol .. didnt even compare first) ... so now I have to get more on .. so Im finding myself counting out a bet in fifty quid notes and driving ten miles to another corals and doing it again .... ended up with a lowish four figure amount on by kick-off .. and can vividly remember sitting down in front of ceefax (lol) at five to three and not being nervous at all. Very strange when that happens. Anyway, finished 2-1 at QPR and 5-2 at Coventry and felt a bit gutted because I should have had more on ... looking back Im not sure where my total confidence came from in that bet but it was such a massive amount for me then its hard to make sense of it.
I think I drove around shops not because I feared being gubbed (probably never crossed my mind) but, totally wrongly, thinking it wouldnt alert them to how badly priced their coupon was. So naive.
That was the penultimate match of the season and IIRC Coral and Hills reacted with their odds for the last round of matches .. they were now crap ... or that what I believed, again "proving" I should have had more on! So, went back to betting fivers and stuff as before.
I spent all summer hoping and praying about these coupons .. even began looking at property prices around the area at one point!! .. walked into Corals on a bright and sunny Thursday lunchtime before the opening season fixtures and no Grudge Match coupon .. even got the woman to phone head office to see if they were coming ... "sorry, coupon not being run this season". Went to Hills and the same thing. Utterly gutted.
Also, Im sure I didnt have to bet trebles ... not sure how though unless that was the year they changed it.
Actually, 2004/5 was a strange one for the championship .. I remember Burnley and Millwall going through this amazing run of winning or losing exactly 1-0 .. seem to recall Tony Pulis managed one of them ... and when Millwall played Burnley the odds on 1-0 or 0-1 were something like 11/4 each at ladbrokes.
And, until Falcao, that was my highest cash encounter with bookies for nearly eight years.
Last edited by goroovy; 20/04/2014 at 12:23.
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HOW DAVE NEVISON IS BOTH OPEN AND CLOSED
His two books are a good read .. can get them both for less than a tenner on kindle ... the insight is well worth it from one of the top faces in "this thing of ours". Unless you're from Liverpool or Wolverhampton you'll find them a very easy entertaining and short read.
What I liked .. he is smart .. Oxbridge graduate and it shows .. very thoughtful and a pleasant lack of hyperbole about, well, anything. He also shows the value of making your own prices (he calls them tissues) and not being price-led into decision making.
And thankfully brief .. almost non-existent .. bio stuff. Think he knows we have no interest whether he had a happy childhood or his mam was an angel, etc etc. Nice lack of ego throughout in that respect.
What I disagreed with .. he dismisses laying horses .. he's typically blunt in saying he is a failure at it. However, I think what he doesn't mention (and I do suspect it is not accidental .. more in a bit) is that he was doing this in a period when bf was new and "betting for a horse to lose to massive stakes" seemed like a wet dream to pre-bf punters.
My problem with this is that he leaves the 'laying' debate there .. just "Im not very good at it so dont do it". Personally, I smell a big fat rodent. Pre-bf he seems really honest and open and it all makes sense .. but post-bf I suspect a bit of holding back at best.
For example, in all his years of punting ... IIRC he only obliquely refers to a horse "possibly being deliberately held up but then maybe just badly ridden" once or twice ... talks of "it may happen, but Ive never seen any evidence of it" Arsne Wenger type thing ... now, he must have been involved in some of Fallon's races for example .. not a peep about it though. And he works in the press room and is present almost seven days a week in there at courses when bf started ... I just cannot believe he was never aware of any foul play other than the vague maybe/possibly/potentially mention as above.
This rodent grew in size when he said he (suspiciously slowly) came to the conclusion that his tissue prices weren't working after bf came along. So, he has stopped punting (ahem .. read backing IMHO) and gone into bloodstock .. but is at lengths to say how he never manages to bet on his own stable's horses (the Best stable) ... I am sure he has laid a few but though .. but he's not saying ..
I kind of enjoyed how he explained how he has reached the conclusion that, because of bf, he isn't going to make any life-changing wins by tissue pricing before odds appear in the RP. However, his logic that he is going after Scoop 6's .. not when they are full (too many syndicates), so when the pool is moderately over-priced is his plan for riches.
Sure, Dave .. thats your only strategy.
What I liked .. is loads .. funny guy, some great stories (you can almost smell the Adelphi Hotel in Liverpool on Aintree week) and seems a nice, decent fella.
That he is keeping schtum about his 'angles' is totally fine in reality ... Im kind of criticising him for not being an idiot above ... just would prefer he came out and said it rather than playing a child of innocence and honesty.
He's also very upfront about how he gets his bets on via runners and whatnot and also calls a spade a spade .. he names a few people and bookies he disrespects in the industry which, while maybe isnt nice, is 100% refreshing in an autobiography .. especially given his visibility when connections are crucial
Im sure hes making a bundle .. but hes not telling (last book was written 2008 btw .. maybe a reason he stopped, possibly rodent related .. who can say).
I was left with the feeling that I would love to have a pint with this man .... totally +ev in so many respects, not just financially.
Recommended reads though, by a mile the best and (for all the above) most plausible books I have read on this "thing of ours".
Last edited by goroovy; 20/04/2014 at 17:18.
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HOW THIS GAME SUCKS SOMETIMES
OK, Saturday morning I suddenly realise that I missed the next level on my bf cash race by 6 bf points. It was only £35 lost but, you know ho it is, bugged me a lot.
As always, just plough on .. started looking at the offers and realised Id forgot to place my bffo fbs for the chelsea=athletico draw .. another £40. Havent even placed a bet and Im £75 down.
So, double check everything .. realise I also forgot to claim the £15 188bet fb ... £86 down now
Spent the whole day basically losing another £80 while transferring £1,900 into my bulging wh account.
Sunday and Conor Whickham helps me transfer over another £600 while I lose another £40 on qualies. Suarez deserts us for a much needed loss top up .. down another £40 .. odds and sods cost me another £40 (eg bf casino's Britains Got a Problem slot offer).
So, what a shit w/e but read about bf offering punchtown cash bonuses .. didnt get that but instead got an email from them telling me I was gubbed .. only consolation being it was made after careful consideration. If theyd said theyd done it willy-nilly or for a laugh or something, Id have been gutted.
Oh and my neighbours here fitted a new front door to the apartment block without giving out keys .. was locked out for three hours on Monday. And today I placed a tenner virtual footie bet offer at freds . bet Ajax to beat or draw vs. Motherwell at 1.02 .. they lost 1-2!!
Cant wait for the last EPL games in two weeks and to just forget about major sports events without any FOMO until the new season kicks off in August. Oh, no .. wait ..
Last edited by goroovy; 29/04/2014 at 17:24.
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posted this in chat .. but .. this series of Guardian articles is just fantastic ... the Escobar one still shocks even today .. and the Bergkamp one will have you scouring youtube for full highlights of the Holland Argie '98 match ... '98 was surely the last 'great' world cup .. thanks to the CL and FIFAs "corrupt regime + plenty of bribes + scorching weather" election criteria.
Last edited by goroovy; 06/05/2014 at 20:25.
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Sorry to hijack your thread goroovy
Unlucky mate. If it makes you feel better, I once did a casino / slots kind of offer, betting a stake for the offer (£5), not realising that I had 40 lines selected - and I did that twice - both spins lost
I never bet @ 1.02, but I did lay Angel Cabrera Cabrera at something like 8.0 in last years Masters, and he ended up playing a stonking shot to force a play off - which is just as bad as I was chasing losses like you. Lesson learnt
I think you just have to take the rough with the smooth and move on
All the best. Your posts make great reading
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In Eastern Europe it can be strange going to matches ... can have a bit of an "event" feel .. where people arent going to see a sporting match but to see what all the fuss is about. I call it McDonald's football .. no passion but technically does what it advertises. Goals get greeted with some enthusiasm but it's the inevitable "ultra show" which gets the cameras clicking .. lots of dry ice, flares, etc.
So, why does it have this? Maybe because of this really weird phenonemum over here .. league championship fight clubs ... league tables, the lot. They take this stuff very seriously.
have a browse round this forum .. its so weird .. literally another football planet .. this thread is their league fight club competitions .. but other threads show their more 'theatrical' endeavours
Ultras-Tifo Forum -> Arranged fights in Russia