Ziigmund and Cole in $273,000 pot - amazing hand!

[Handyman]

Before we start, it is important to give a little background on Illari Sahamies. Hailing from Finland, Sahamies is one of the most feared nosebleed stakes players around.

Ziigmund, as he is better known to his legions of online followers, has been a mainstay at Full Tilt Poker’s biggest games for the past 3 years. Known to play equally as well drunk or sober, Ziigmund is universally feared for his masterful ability to read the game and his ‘any cards will do’ gambling attitude, which has made him a folk hero to the Full Tilt railbirds.

Ziigmund is also the sponsored pro for Power Poker where you can play against him and other famous players at more normal stakes than those they play at Full Tilt.

Below is a very interesting hand that occurred last month between Cole ‘CTS’ South and Illari ‘Ziigmund’ Sahamies on the $300/$600 PLO Tables at Full Tilt Poker. You really need to click on this link to see how the hand played before reading on



Illari ‘Ziigmund’ Sahamies Ad 5d 10h 9c
Cole South 6c 6d 3c 3s



Flop: 9d Kd 2d
With $17,000 in the pot on flop, the action begins with Cole South who takes at stab at it by betting $13,500 into Ziigmund, who smooth calls with Ad5d - the absolute nuts.

How far is Cole behind in this hand on the flop? He has less than 5% chance of winning at this moment!



Turn: 9d Kd 2d 3h
With $44,100 in pot, the action is checked to Ziigmund who bets $26,400 (around 60% the pot) which South calls with trip 3’s.



River: 9d Kd 2d 3h 3d
Cole South checks to Ziigmund who made a pot bet of $96,000. South called with quads, winning a $273,000 pot.



Cole "CTS" South and Illari ‘Ziigmund’ Sahamies Pot Limit Omaha monsterpotten

What do you think of the play, the betting, what hand did each player think the other thinks he thinks he had on the flop, turn and the killer river?

[RudolphUcker]

I've read a few NL holdem strategy books but I've never read an Omaha strategy book, so I'm not really qualified to comment on the play.

But I do play a PLO $2 donkament some nights and I've learned, especially online where cards might be 'juiced', to never slow-play in Omaha. There are just too many possible danger cards when you each have 4 cards in your hand. If I've got the nuts after the flop I'm going to bet the pot, in case the boards pairs on the turn.

Maybe that means I lose value on the hands and don't win as often as I should.

[Nosmo_________King]

You dont need to have read books on omaha strategy to comment, playing is where you really learn about omaha strategy. Books do give you some advance stuff or open your eyes to new concepts but the pain or joy of playing omaha is where its at.

I understand what you are saying about betting the pot on the flop in omaha but you may be creating problems for yourself. Omaha tournaments are all about controlling the pot size and trying, although difficult to do, to play small ball poker to ensure survival. Obviously not talking about every pot but those where you have a good hand but there could be danger ahead. For example you have 2 pair on the flop but there is a flush or straight draw, you may perhaps be better off long term small balling it.

In this hand between Ziigmund and CTS, Ziigmund has to slow play it on the flop. He has the very rare case where he has flopped the nuts and there is no danger from the board. he wants the other players money and has to keep him in the hand.

On the turn he bets a healthy 60% of the pot because there is still no danger to him as the board has not paired. When CTS calls I believe he has put him on the Queen high flush The reason I say this is because of Ziigmunds play on the river, the board pairs but he does not check and see the showdown for free but bets into the board, he believes he has the hand won.

The reason why this hand is amazing is because of the maths involved and the plays of the players. The Handyman will reveal more in time or discuss them further when someone else posts about them.

[Nosmo_________King]

RudolphUcker, when you say juiced do you mean rigged or action hands are created on purpose by the software to build the pots?

[Handyman]

pre flop the odds of both hands winning are 50/50, cash in the pot pre flop 17100

The flop has come down perfect for Ziigmund, a total disaster for Cole but this is Omaha. You can represent anything because you could have anything. Its like taking over Notts County, you just have to have the balls and pretend that what you got in your hand is what they have not got but want.

Cole totally misses the flop, so gives it a cheeky little bet. he either takes it down there or really has to fold if Ziigmund shows any kind of metal. Strange to say this for Cole but very luckily it turns out Ziigmund has flopped the nuts! how far is cole behind in this hand on the flop? he has less than 5% chance of winning from the flop, 1 in 20.

What hands do they think the other has? Ziigmund has to put Cole on either a set or 2 pair or the flush, he is hoping for the queen high flush. What does Cole put crazy player Ziigmund on? Either absolutely nothing or it has to be higher than his hand? Maybe Ziigmund is drawing?


The turn is a nothing card and $44,100 in the pot now before betting

Ziigmund has to believe that it is no danger whatsoever. Cole has hit a set and now his odds of winning the hand are over 20% or 1 in 5, Cole knows that either his set is ahead or he can hit the full house on the river and very likely win the pot and a lot or all of Ziigmund money, if Ziigmund has something. So Cole checks to the raiser to see how cheaply he might get to see the river and to see if Ziigmund has anything. Ziigmund has something. Ziigmund bets a lovely 60% of the pot, Ziigmund bet either takes it down or if he gets called then he has got great value.

What do the players now put each other on? Ziigmund has to think cole either has the queen high flush or has a set, What else could he be staying in with? But i think Ziigmund puts him on the flush.

now here is where maths comes into play and especially ROI. there is $44100 in the pot and after Ziigmund bet of $26400 you have a total of $70500. Cole is either ahead with his set or losing but he could hit the mother lode and the boat. Its $26400 to call, under 3 to 1, so he is not getting the correct odds if he needs the full house to win. But what will be his ROI if he hits?
Ziigmund has cole covered and after calling Cole would have $88161 left. if he could somehow get Ziigmund to put his whole stack in then Cole would be getting $88161 + $70500 already in the pot (he has not made the bet yet so dont count that money for this example). Thats a possible total of over $150,000 and to call is $26400, thats over 5.6 to 1. His chances of winning are 5 to 1 if he belives Ziigmund does not have a higher set.

Cole has to call! or does he?

pot now stands at $96900

The river. Those 2 words that can mean the difference between poker life and death. Cole checks and this is where we can guess at what hand Ziigmund has put Cole on, it has to be a high flush draw. If he puts him on the set then it is very hard and unlikely to represent a higher set, and Cole is calling with any full house. So Ziigmund is either betting his winning flush or thinking that Cole is on 2 pair, perhaps aces or kings.

Ziigmund bets the pot and must have had one of those poker moments when he sees the call. delight and despair. he has either won all the money or cole has called for some reason. For a second he may have even been trying to work out how cole could have hit the full house, then realised Cole has quads. 95% ahead and now over $185,000 behind. Thats omaha for ya.

Do people agree with the maths and the reading of what the players think the other player has?

There is something immense about the play in this hand and that is why the Handyman has picked this hand. A merit mark for anyone who can spot what the genius thing is?

[ThreeBetter]

One thing I need to know before commenting is - was South CALLING all-in, or did he have the possiblilty to raise on the river, I am assuming not?

[ThreeBetter]

Re-reading it, my instict would be that the best play here is South's check on the river. If he bets out here, then Zig is likely to clock the Full House at least and fold. But seeing that it is so rare to check raise in Omaha - even qith quads - South set Zigmund up for a vlaue bet that went very wrong.
Incidentally, Zigmund's flat call is an unorthodox but correct play on the flop, and must have had South down in this hand, knowing he had air but failed to realise he'd caught up on the river. And if Zig is so sure of having the hand on flop and turn, it seems so unlikely that the river changed anything.

[Aunt_Fanny]

hello my little check mates - which is what its all about - as 3better spotted. how the fella who has the full nuts does not want to do what most men want to do in that situation & jam it all right in there is beyond me - an $eighty eight thousand check when the board couples up is upstanding. if only all men had such control right at the end of some exciting hand action like this

but as others have said before life is like poker & poker like life - you have to know how the other person ticks & how he normally wants to play with what he has got in his hands - to tease the other person into doing what you want but what they think they want to do

check mate