Playing it cool or Killing them Early?

[Super_Dash]

Ok Mr Handyman,

I got Dealt KK,

Now the gentile guy in Dash said, raise softly (0.5/1 Game). The last pots had seen raises of €5 in the first round of betting so ..

Dash raises €5 ..
3 players fold, 1 Calls.


Flop

K 9 2

The smooth guy in Dash says raise softly,

Dash Raises €3.50,

opposition raises €5

Dash calls

River (?)

5

Dash raises €8

I don't want him to drop out just yet but I do want to increase his commitment to the pot

oppositions calls

Turn

10

Dash raises €5

opposition raises to €10

Dash takes him all in (Pot €55 of mine and €55 of his minus rake).


Dash Loses

He had Q J



Should I have saw that from his over commitment in the final round?

I assumed he had pockets all along and that his we Pocket 9's. Wow I was surprised to lose this; should I have raised aggressively earlier when I was the clear favourite?

Or was it smart to try to play it cool?

[RudolphUcker]

I'll have a go at trying to analyse this hand Dash.

You don't mention your position in this hand, but I assume it is early/middle position as you had to act first on later streets.

Your initial raise is fine, if the table had generally been raising 5 big blinds when entering the pot. You get one caller so there should now be 11.50 in the pot (0.50 small blind, 1.00 big blind, bet 5.00, call 5.00).

On the flop you only bet 3.50, about 30% of the pot and he probably sees this as a probe bet, an "I didn't hit the flop so I'll just put out a small bet to see where I am" type of bet. He raises an extra 5.00 to see if you're serious about the hand, hoping to either take it down now, or else hoping that you will check the turn to him and he can check behind for a free card to his gutshot. His play is not bad here but if he really wanted to get you off the hand he should've put in a bigger raise. You just call and at this stage alarm bells should start ringing for him. At this point I think there is 28.50 in the pot.

The turn brings the 5 and although you don't say what suit it is (or indeed any of the other suits), it looks like this card is a 'brick', a nothing card. He has already shown interest in the pot on the flop, so your turn bet should be much bigger. You bet 8.00 into a 28.50 pot, I think a bet in the region of 18-20 would've been the size I'd go for. The pot now contains 36.50 and it costs him 8.00 to call so he is getting odds of 36.5/8 or 4.5/1. If he had an open-ended straight draw or a flush draw he was still getting good odds at this stage, but he made the call with a gutshot which is something like a 10 or 11 to 1 shot. He made a mistake here and if he keeps playing like this the maths will catch up with him eventually. Unfortunately, this time you were the unfortunate victim when he hit his miracle river.

I think you both made errors in this hand - you in your bet-sizing and him in his turn call. Bet 70%-80% of the pot on the turn and you'll take it down most times straight away. You had the nuts after the flop, and still had the nuts after the turn (assuming not 3 of a flush on board), but things can change quickly in online poker. Most of the time I'm happy to make a pot-sized bet on the turn to win the pot there and then rather than risk a bad beat. I don't handle bad beats all that well! If he calls then I know I've got my money in good and I'm favourite. But the villain is definitely someone I would sit down with again if he keeps making those kinds of calls.

Over to you Handyman for some real analysis...

[wobbler]

I'm no expert but I would say the guy was putting a lot of faith in hitting that 10 on the river.

[johnsmith]

you both played it terribly

you should have taken it down on the turn or pushed after his flop raise

his play is just terrible full stop

but given you think the river is before the turn , this may confuse you

[Super_Dash]

Yea I wasn't happy with the pot size, but I wanted to keep him and commit him so didn't want to scare him off, a few games back my raise of 15 scared some one of seeing the river and I wanted him too commited to back out.

Ok a few notes, the flush wasn't on at any stage, maybe the river but certainly not before.

I was just so convinced he had a lower pair than me I was scared of scaring him out of the hand early! Ahhh the benefits of hind sight.

[Handyman]

top reply there RudolphUcker

Dash - RudolphUckers advice is top banananana, how you should have normally played the hand. i think i will copy and save that one and put it on my portfolio when i try and hard bargain with Andy to get a TGT mug

Dash - this hand you have played it slightly different to normal, keep him in the hand and milk him, and your previous experience of them folding was factored in.

Poker is a game of information and you did use that. So in that sense you did nothing wrong (until the river) as you did not try to bet him out of it or re raise him out of the pot. But its the river where you did not apply the slow play tactic correctly i feel.

You have slow played from the flop and dont put him on a strong hand, that is why you have not bet him out of the pot. On the river i dont understand your play. He is only going to call your all ins if he has you somehow beat, yet you dont put him on that hand so why re re raise all ins? If he has nothing much he is not really going to call your sign of strength and you are really only risking your stack to gain nothing (most times).

Not that I would have put him on the QJ ! But i would have been suspicious of a dodgy 2 pair with his action on the river.

Dont beat yourself up about this hand, its a classic poker hand where you dont know until afterwards if you played it right or wrong. Sometimes you will never know if you could have got more out of him or would have still lost your stack by betting differently.

[Super_Dash]

I thought my 3 of a Kind Kings was infallable.. In all honestly I thought i'd hooked HIM when he called the all in.

But yea, alot to learn, fools rush in fast.. the idea was there but the execution was poor. On Sunday i'll try revise it!