FullTilt Poker Tourney VI - Monday July 5th, 8PM -$10 buy in. ($11 really)

[DoctorGonzo]

FWIW I agree with Nin... and also with Andy about future deals!

In our defense we did not know that the game would be cut short, and so believed that points would be allocated as per normal once the game had played out. I think the deal was only considered (certainly by me anyway) due to the unusually large pot, which allowed it to split amongst the remaining players whilst still giving all involved a reasonable amount, which seemed to me to be in the spirit of the game. But I understand why Nin might be slightly annoyed!

[munk]

As far as I know aren't the FTP tournament finishing lists just based on the chip stacks of each person as they went out (regardless of how you 'went out')? So if you did a deal then the player order in the tournament finishing list would have represented the size of each person's stack at the time the deal was struck? I'm only thinking this in light of the fact of what happens when you have a double bust out - me and norgechester (I think it was) both got knocked out at the same time by nintendo, and he was listed above me in the finishing list on FLT because his chip stack was a few thousand compared to my 900 or so I think it was.

Would have been fairer just to award points in the order of the finishing list I would have thought if that is the case.

[stevo33]

yes, but i didn't get knocked out! You wouldn't agree to 7th place points if that is the worst position you can finish and 1st is the best. Its like saying to Germany in last nights football, "theres 10 minutes left and you're 1-0 down- we can stop the game now and you can be a beaten semi finalist". In my case it would be, "we'll do a deal, are you happy with 7th place out of 7 stevo?". My answer would be no because I still have a chance of finishing higher.
The whole crux of "the deal" was that everyone agreed that the value of 2nd to 7th place was equal. The difference between 8th place and 7th place, in this instance, is that 8th place got knocked out. 7th place could have finished the tournament in any position between 7th and 1st if the tournament had ran its full course.

[DoctorGonzo]

Think of it like Deal or No Deal... you could either accept an offer of guaranteed cash from the banker, or continue for a chance of getting more but risk going away with nothing.

[stevo33]

The issue isn't the money- its the points. For this tournament, it would be unfair to give me 7th place points because I didn't get knocked out in 7th place. I DIDN'T get knocked out. We made the deal on the basis of the money; tournament positions and league table points weren't discussed (well I didn't discuss them).
If any of us were in a tournament and we were in 7th place out of 7 and a deal was formulated that the tournament finishes and everyone is awarded their current position- I dont think anyone would agree to it in that position.

[DoctorGonzo]

If any of us were in a tournament and we were in 7th place out of 7 and a deal was formulated that the tournament finishes and everyone is awarded their current position- I dont think anyone would agree to it in that position.

They might if they were guaranteed a share of the pot that they otherwise would not receive, hardly a valid comparison though IMO.

Anyway, no one really made an issue about it apart from you, and you got what you wanted so I suppose any further discussion is moot.

[stevo33]

I could still have received a share of the pot. Nobody had actually knocked me out of the tournament so I was still in with some chance.

[Andy]

I think we are probably done now. Results stand, 7pts for all who came "2nd". In future you can deal to split the real $s in the tournament of course but know that you will automatically get ZERO points in the TGT league if that happens.

Well next weeks game will certainly have some edge to it, exciting!!!
http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/boar...-6-really.html

P.S. Winning the League will only win you a very small if slightly fun amount of $s anyway, we couldnt think of anything better as a prize, sorry. I suppose you get the Glory though. Maybe we can have a Special Icon for winning the League overall.

[Nintendo2k]

I don't care about the money at all. I have enough and I have won a couple of TGT tourneys, and also received a TGT mug so I am happy in terms of money + stuff really. It is more the legitimacy of the league that concerns me. When the summer league started, my goal was not to win a tourney, but to do good in the league. I still have a very good chance of doing so, and I am probably overreacting here, but it all just seems very artificial after this debacle.

I understand that is an unprecedented situation and that we had not considered that this would ever happen, but I still can't agree fully with it. Gonzo did not win the tournament just because he had the most chips at the time of play when it ended. Last week I went on to win despite having the least amount of chips when 3-4 players were remainin in the field. None of the other remaining players in tournament VII legitimately finished 2nd. Gonzo did not win. If so then you could argue that I finished 3rd, Andy finished 4th... or whatever. I guess you could argue that dead heat (or whatever) terms would apply, but in that instance I would only see it fitting to apply what would happen in any (?) other league, like a football league. Goal difference would apply. In this case, I would consider it fitting that stack size shoud apply.

Surely it says that 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 points will be given out, not 12, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 3, 2, 1 or something else depending on how a deal is made. There were only 15 entrants for this tournament, but I can bet that all of those played (or did not really care/think about it much) under the pretense that we played towards that system no matter what would happen. Sure some will benefit and some will not. We do not know who would have gone to win the tournament, and we do not know who would have finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. We only know the placed below that. Personally I do not think it is right that those who got 7 points were given it because they could *potentially* finish 2nd. Judging from my own experience, and also the countless dulence comebacks (sorry to drag you in on this!), then I would actually say that every one of the remaining players could have finished 1st. Sure everyone remaining (except gonzo) could have ended up with more or the same amount of points than they did, but they could also have ended up with less points. In fact, it was a 50% chance that they would end up with less points than what was given out.

I appreciate that a rule is now in place that says if a deal is made then no points will be awarded is a fair rule and that it will prevent further confusion if this would happen again, and that we never had any rules in place before this tournament to protect us from such situations. But seeing this killed a lot of my interest in participating in the league.

I appreciate that I am only one of a handful of people who would actually benefit from it if points were given out on a normal basis. I played (and announced) a tilt towards the end of my game because I did not have the time to continue playing, and I was happy that I had finished in the points. If I knew that I could get 4 more points if I just stuck in there for 5 more minutes then obviously I would have done so and not wasted my chips. Obviously this is my own fault, but I never anticipated what would go on to happen.

Anyway... that is that, and what is done is done, and I guess that I will never agree with some of the views here and what turned out to be the outcome. For sure we learned something from this ordeal, and hopefully we will never, ever, see anything happen that can pull the league system in doubt, even if it just one person who thnks so. These will be my last words on this issue. Sorry to be a drama queen.