Thanks have seen it now i think its only for phone accounts so am going to give this one a miss i think until they offer a good online deal. Thanks again
Originally Posted by munk
Thanks for the advice particularly about screen copying utilities. I kept copies of T&Cs but only in a text file and could have written that myself - not much use in a dispute.
Yeah, I deposited £20 and had a fiddle around in-play.
Originally Posted by Andy
I've gotta admit I didn't learn too much, but I have spent the last week reading & re-reading guides & forums so maybe I'd already absorbed quite a bit. It was fun though. I wasn't sure whether it was more beneficial to back & lay or just place some bets. I did both in the end. I didn't really get my head round the small numbers underneath the odds (I assume this is the liquidity?), does your stake amount need to be less than that to guarantee a match?
I used to do exactly the same, copied the full t&c for any offer I did and saved it religiously in a text file. Nowadays I generally don't bother doing that any more because if I do an offer I usually make sure the first post of any thread that discusses that particular offer has the full T&C and any useful research notes in it (one of the perks of being a moderator is being able to edit first posts like that, hopefully it helps a lot more people than just me though!!!).
Originally Posted by csacsa
Something else I started to do along the same lines was to use the site ChangeDetection - Know when any web page changes to keep track of the t&c for an offer, so that if the t&c changed I'd get notified about it... however again I generally don't bother with that now, is a bit of a pain and generally t&c don't often change midway through an offer and if they do most books will uphold the original t&c.
What musicbox said above regards as time goes on you can still make mistakes - I think that's a very good point and if anything it's a huge reason to double/triple check everything no matter how long you've been doing it - the further in you are into match betting, the larger your float is and the larger the bets are that you can place... so the mistakes you make on those bigger bets are amplified and a lot more costly. Much better to get into the habit of double checking everything to start with, after a while it becomes second nature and doesn't take much time at all.
My heart still pounds with almost every bet I place, especially if it is an arb After making a couple of mistakes I now religiously check the bet and lay at least twice before confirming and then check them once they are placed so that if I have ballsed up I have time to hopefully minimise the damage.
Originally Posted by csacsa
I would recommend for now not betting on anything that is due to start shortly after you place the bet, as that will give you time to correct anything if necessary.
After a while navigating the sites becomes a bit easier, as you revisit sites for reloads etc.
My main advice would be any questions, ask here as there are no such things as stupid questions, just things you haven't learnt yet.
Originally Posted by Cloverleaves
I hope you're right about the questions - we'll see what I come up with.
Originally Posted by dingling68
Thanks to all for your advice and taking the time - much appreciated.
1. In general, I'd expect different coin values to have a similar net payback. Identifying and simulating slot reel layouts has confirmed this. However, there are exceptions, such as 3-reel slots that require the max bet to get the highest jackpot and bonus round. I also wouldn't be surprised if some RTG casinos set different payouts for different coin sizes on 5-reel slots, like some do with VP games. Land based casinos are also a different story.
2. If you are playing with a bonus, I'd quit soon after finishing the WR.
3. For a cashable pre-wager bonus, EV = Bonus - Average Wagering * House Edge. Slots are fairly high variance, so there is a decent chance of busting before completing wagering. This reduces average wagering, and can result in games being EV+ in spite of being 30xB on slots. Doubling can also be a useful tool, if it counts towards wagering. As implied by the discussion above, the EV of a cashable pre-wager bonus can be increased dramatically by starting out with higher variance bets (two-tier betting).
4. The chance of bonus banning varies from one casino to the next. I wouldn't expect major problems from slot play, particularly if you don't consistently win. However, if you are concerned, there are ways to decrease this risk, such as playing without bonuses and winning less consistently (using larger bet size, increasing risk of bust & EV).
Thank you for the help - it's very much appreciated.
I'm not sure I fully understand this. Are you saying that by making high-variance bets to start with, you either bust out quickly, or make a lot of money quickly and then can grind out the WR, and that you'll make more money (over time) by winning and grinding out than you'll lose (over time) by busting out?
Originally Posted by aka23
And since it's likely I won't consistently win, I won't worry about this, then!
Originally Posted by aka23
If you get the bonus up front you want to be betting as big as possible hoping for a large win because you are effectively getting two shots at it if its a 100% bonus, that is where the value is, it is having two goes at a big win rather than in exrtacting the actual bonus amount like if you are playing blackjack. This is why even "sticky" bonuses can be good +EV.
It used to be called the "depth charge" method on bonus whores but i dont think that site exists anymore. Except i might have muddled that up with a different method and anyway i used to just do what Andy told me to which seemed to be different at each one and sometimes he just made stuff up to confuse me ;-) I used to be told that "mac" was the true pro at casinos scalping and so i would say try to PM or get in touch with him if you are serious about getting into it.
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