Betfair Premium Charge / Charging thread
I have just found out that Betfair are introducing this Premium charge on my account. To my horror I found a charge of £588 on my account which was refunded due to "first week notified."
The gist of it is that they want to take 20% of my net profit. If this week for example I win £1000 in one bet and thats it and I'm charged 5% commission of £50 they will charge my an extra £150 at the end of the week to make it up to 20%. To be eligible for this charge you have to have had a profitable account for 60 days (not sure exactly the details).
I had a phone conversation with a betfair premium charge specialist who claimed this charge is all the stop driving away the losers which will in turn provide liquidity for me, which is a complete load of rubbish.
So which exchange should I go to? I'm betting mostly on football and fairly large amounts per week. I was at 3.7% commission at betfair.
I really hope alot of people have to move from betfair because they are just getting greedier and greedier because they have most of the market and they think they can get away with it. However, I fear betfair will get away with it.
Good grief - that's ridiculous. Not even Paypal or Ebay would do that!!
Why kill a golden goose? They make 3.7% on a large volume account - sound good business to me - guaranteed profit and introducing liquidity.
The more I look at this world the more bizarre bookies and Exchanges rules become.
A1) Cut up your bank card.
A2) Phone your bank and tell them you lost your card.
A3) Set up new betfair account with 100% your details and shiny new bank card
A4) Use betfair with no premium charge.
A5) Hope they dont notice (they havnt ever dont before but there is always a first time)
Or B = As above really but does your Dad / GFriend / Whoever have an account? Now would be a good time for them to join.
Or C = Use Betdaq who have 5% comm but can be haggled down to 2% if you deposit a lot and show them you used betfair a lot before.
Or D = Use Betmate which is a skin of betdaq but they have 3% commission as standard.
Have a plan and stick to it
Are you laying football? If backing, there's always the possibility of just using somewhere really good for football like 188bet, 12bet, pinnacle etc. Maybe *slightly* less good odds but rock solid reliability and none of this premium charge rubbish.
The charge I think was partly introduced to stop the traders who green up on markets and arguably remove liquidity (matching against oneself reduces the money you bring to the table almost completely?) and only pay 5%-discount on winnings.
If an exchange is needed, I'd have a quiet word with Betdaq, with some screenshots of your Betfair action and discount rate and politely suggest that as you're bringing £x regularly to their markets, can you please have 2% commission. Depending on what they give you, go there or Betmate as mentioned. If you can place your bets on AH you get 2% commission at both those anyways
If you're mainly betting on soccer I would go for 12bet or 188bet and dutch the 1 or the 2 in 1x2 bets against +0.5AH if you can. Unfortunately matching the draw or the underdog at the asian's isn't as easy (there probably is a way but I don't know how without doing a full 3way dutch which is a bit more hassle)... so for those I usually go onto Betmate for 3% commission.
Originally Posted by Adam
Also Betmate is excellent for very large football matches on the AH market, +/-0.5AH is only 2% commission and generally you can get pretty competitive prices compared to the asian specialists (plus has the benefit you can lay TeamA on the TeamA -0.5 AH market to give you an extra option).
Regards Betfair though like Andy says you can open another Betfair account no problem, not against their T&C, just make sure you use a different funding method (different bank card or different moneybookers email address, you can use the same moneybookers account but just make sure the email address is different from any you've used on the old BF account).
Betfair also have the double RAF offer on at the moment so you can get £50 referral bonus plus £40 for the referrer, if you wanted to do that I would be happy to refer you (or see the referral thread for others who are offering it).
I don't think I'd want to be without Betfair because they do usually have tighter back/lay spreads, but for large football matches it's not so bad using Betmate.
Thanks for all the advice.
I am mainly laying football matches, sorry I didn't make that clear. I'll have a look into it but I'll probably choose between betmate and betdaq as my main exchange and have betfair as a back-up. I'll use my Dad's betfair account just in case they rollover the premium charge to the new account if I opened it in my name. I didn't think of dutching regularly though. I guess I will just have to spread my funds out a bit now I just liked having it all in one place, but I want to find an alternative to just using betfair because I guess they will just keep coming up with new schemes to extract more money and because I don't like being ripped off.
That reminds me actually, when I asked them for details about premium charging and whether I'd be hit on my account (account singular), they sent me a report containing BOTH of the Betfair accounts I have... so it looks like they might consider all accounts you have when assessing premium charging and not do it on a per account basis.
Originally Posted by Adam
So I've been hit by the premium charge on my second betfair account. Unfortunately didn't notice it and so am now £600 down from this stupid charge.
Anyone had any luck fighting it and getting their charges back?
For your first week of the charge after you become eligible, they're supposed to email you with a warning, but say that you won't be charged this 1st week, but will in the future. £600 worth of charges makes it sound like you've been paying this for some time before you noticed, though.
Originally Posted by Grandthrax
You're best chance is to ring up CS on the normal number and ask to speak about the PC, and they'll respond by getting a member of the PC team to call you back.
You will likely find that you are able to escalate things to quite a high degree if you're not happy with the response - we don't have enough details from your post here, and I'd suggest you keep it that way at least while you're still talking to them about it.
I was heading towards the end of my allowance (and my usage is/was light) at the time I found out and called them (I had a '54 week' (now called 'lifetime') total charges figure which hovered around 7% at that time, simply due to bad variance.). I stressed and stressed my light usage, and their response to me was polite and friendly, but amounted to a very long winded 'tough luck'. I got to speak to senior management at the time, who appeared to listen, but conceded little, except to suggest that I traded off against Daq until I had brought my total charges position up to a safe margin again.
Instead, I switched to BetMate at that point, to protect the remainder of my PC allowance for use when BF was the only choice, and never really missed BF to be honest. I intended to return after the 'problem' had expired after the 54-week period had dropped off the account. BetMate ended the 3% rate, and Betfair had reset my total charges profile to 20% when they rejigged the PC from 54 weeks to lifetime, so I cautiously gave it another go, and I currently have a lifetime total charges profile in the 40%s, and it's slowly rising.
I must say this; There's a very unfortunate misconception* which Betfair seem to actually encourage, that the PC only hits high rollers. This is simply untrue - variance can and does hit matchers like us; the PC is triggered simply by your win/loss ratio, and other than the £500 allowance, eligibility for the PC is not affected by your turnover rate at all.
Again, don't think that the PC is only for 'high rollers'. Anyone and everyone should log into BF and then click on this link to check your position - you do need to be logged in before you click on this link. This will allow you to know if you're in danger of being eligible for the PC then you can do something about it before you lose the use of your BF account entirely;
The figure you should pay most attention to is the 'total charges' figure on the left hand 'lifetime' column. I'd suggest if you are below or near 20% then you need to be aware, if you are over 30%, then just check back again in a few months to keep tabs.
* (actually there's quite a few - they have a very careful and I believe deliberately misleading use of the word 'affected' by the PC; if you're not paying it in that week then you're not 'affected' by it (most who are liable to pay it will not play there and so are not 'affected' even though they are 'liable' to pay it))
When I do this (and I am logged on to BF at the time) I just get a message saying
"Your account has not incurred Premium Charges. If you become eligible to incur Premium Charges in the future, we will contact you before any charges are paid. If you require any further assistance, please contact ...."
I don't find this very encouraging because although my turnover is quite light, I have had an impossibly high proportion of bets win at BF since about Cheltenham (when everything won there) and I would quite like to know where I stand.
By trinitybruce in forum Player Support / Gaming Site Feedback / General Complaints
Last Post: 16/01/2009, 10:39
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