
Asian WRs with a small float
I have long been of the opinion that you really don't need a float the same size as the WR safely to do an Asian bookie bonus, as on average you'll lose at least half your bets.
However, signing up to M88 has prompted me to put this vague assertion onto a more sound mathematical footing, as I really wanted
to know how quickly I could get through the WR at this appalling site.
Anyway, I've made a little spreadsheet to work out just how much you can bet each time and still be safe; I found that I was being way too cautious. It's based on every bet having a 50% chance of winning, with a payout at 2.00. In reality, for a 50/50 bet the payout will be at 1.95 or below, so I'm erring on the side of caution here.
It's a bit clunky, you can make it do strange things by varying stakes by small amounts, due to several cells being set as integers, but I think it does what I set out to do. Don't set the proposed stake too low though, Excel cannot do factorials above about 170, the numbers get too big.
I note that a couple of people on the chat thread are doing maths degrees, so I expect to be shot down quite soon
IMO don't attempt an Asian bonus if your float is less than half the WR though, as an initial bad winning streak will have nasty consequences that are not factored into my calculations.

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Originally Posted by Pokebus
I have long been of the opinion that you really don't need a float the same size as the WR safely to do an Asian bookie bonus, as on average you'll lose at least half your bets.
However, signing up to M88 has prompted me to put this vague assertion onto a more sound mathematical footing, as I really wanted
to know how quickly I could get through the WR at this appalling site.
Anyway, I've made a little spreadsheet to work out just how much you can bet each time and still be safe; I found that I was being way too cautious. It's based on every bet having a 50% chance of winning, with a payout at 2.00. In reality, for a 50/50 bet the payout will be at 1.95 or below, so I'm erring on the side of caution here.
It's a bit clunky, you can make it do strange things by varying stakes by small amounts, due to several cells being set as integers, but I think it does what I set out to do. Don't set the proposed stake too low though, Excel cannot do factorials above about 170, the numbers get too big.
I note that a couple of people on the chat thread are doing maths degrees, so I expect to be shot down quite soon
I did a maths degree but we never covered gubbage probability
Actually never covered any stats at all at Uni, I gave that up at A Level unfortunately (well, unfortunately in retrospect anyway, didn't love stats but it was OK).
The sheet does look to be correct ala the pasted wiki formula after unhiding the hidden cells and having a looksee at the cell formula, but like you it's been nearly 20yrs since I did stats as well. But like you say someone with a few more brain cells may well point something out
If that's correct then like you say you can afford to be a bit less conservative perhaps, even at £100 per stake at around 1.95 odds you can afford to win 23 in a row before you've exhausted your float. So basically just stick to smaller stakes.
Very interesting thanks.

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This is an old thread so hopefully someone can still assist.
What does "WR" mean, withdrawal request? I ask because I downloaded the spreadsheet but I am not positive on how to use it.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

Premium Member
Originally Posted by Vasilije
This is an old thread so hopefully someone can still assist.
What does "WR" mean, withdrawal request? I ask because I downloaded the spreadsheet but I am not positive on how to use it.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
WR = Workthrough.
E.g. if the terms of an offer say deposit £25 for £25 bonus with a WR of 5xDeposit before you can withdraw, then you need to bet £125 before you can withdraw. It's usually best to try and bust out of these by underlaying the first bet and hope that you lose at the bookie which will normally mean that the WR is complete. If the bet wins, then by underlaying you have ensured that you have made a little extra profit at the bookie with which to complete the WR. HTH

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Originally Posted by OldMan
WR = Workthrough.
E.g. if the terms of an offer say deposit £25 for £25 bonus with a WR of 5xDeposit before you can withdraw, then you need to bet £125 before you can withdraw. It's usually best to try and bust out of these by underlaying the first bet and hope that you lose at the bookie which will normally mean that the WR is complete. If the bet wins, then by underlaying you have ensured that you have made a little extra profit at the bookie with which to complete the WR. HTH
Thank you OM, I appreciate it. Have you worked with the above spreadsheet? With your above example in mind, would I plug "$125" into the "Asian WR" column in the spreadsheet? If so, what would I plug into the "Your float after depositing" column? What would I use for the "proposed bet size" column? $25?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand the spreadsheet.

Premium Member
Originally Posted by Vasilije
Thank you OM, I appreciate it. Have you worked with the above spreadsheet? With your above example in mind, would I plug "$125" into the "Asian WR" column in the spreadsheet? If so, what would I plug into the "Your float after depositing" column? What would I use for the "proposed bet size" column? $25?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand the spreadsheet.
Sorry Vasilije, I have never used any downloaded spreadsheets, I have my own which I knocked up. Hopefully someone else on here can help  Munk is usually very good at lengthy thorough explanations

Originally Posted by OldMan
Sorry Vasilije, I have never used any downloaded spreadsheets, I have my own which I knocked up. Hopefully someone else on here can help  Munk is usually very good at lengthy thorough explanations
No worries OM. Thank you for getting back to me.
All the best.

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Originally Posted by Vasilije
This is an old thread so hopefully someone can still assist.
What does "WR" mean, withdrawal request? I ask because I downloaded the spreadsheet but I am not positive on how to use it.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Originally Posted by OldMan
Sorry Vasilije, I have never used any downloaded spreadsheets, I have my own which I knocked up. Hopefully someone else on here can help  Munk is usually very good at lengthy thorough explanations
Originally Posted by Vasilije
Thank you OM, I appreciate it. Have you worked with the above spreadsheet? With your above example in mind, would I plug "$125" into the "Asian WR" column in the spreadsheet? If so, what would I plug into the "Your float after depositing" column? What would I use for the "proposed bet size" column? $25?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand the spreadsheet.
I don't have the spreadsheet to hand and I see the link doesn't work in the first post now, but based on what was said above I guess that:
 the 'proposed bet size' amount you're referring to Vasilije is the one you put into the spreadsheet as the size of bet you want to try using to grind through the WR*
 the float after depositing would be the amount left in your float after you made the deposit, not sure how else to explain that really  eg if you have 1000 to start with and deposit 200 then your float is down to 800.
I'm just guessing though, I don't think I ever used that spreadsheet so Pokebus would be the one to ask unless someone else knows about it / uses it.
*  WR=="Wagering Requirement" to my mind  ie the amount you're required to wager before the bonus is released / made withdrawable.
See the dictionary we did here:
http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/boar...nology477/#WR

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Originally Posted by munk
I don't have the spreadsheet to hand and I see the link doesn't work in the first post now, but based on what was said above I guess that:
 the 'proposed bet size' amount you're referring to Vasilije is the one you put into the spreadsheet as the size of bet you want to try using to grind through the WR*
 the float after depositing would be the amount left in your float after you made the deposit, not sure how else to explain that really  eg if you have 1000 to start with and deposit 200 then your float is down to 800.
I'm just guessing though, I don't think I ever used that spreadsheet so Pokebus would be the one to ask unless someone else knows about it / uses it.
Munk, thank you for the helpful explanations, the spreadsheet is much clearer to me now.
Originally Posted by munk
Wow. That is one thorough dictionary; great work.
Thanks again.

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