Dutching - An Introduction

[bioboybill]

It seems to me that most people who start off matched betting get into it using exchanges like Betfair, Betdaq and Betmate to lay their bets. While these exchanges are a definite plus there are many benefits to be had by adding dutching and asian handicaps to your armoury.

Although I know that there are many people on here far more experienced than myself, I thought it might be an idea to post some kind of introduction to dutching and asian handicaps in order to encourage relative beginners who come to this board to look into these techniques after a while and make their matched betting even more profitable.

I did try to post this as one post, but it was too big, so I split it into two posts (“Dutching – An Introduction” and “Asian Handicaps – An Introduction” that really should be read together. This one should be read first then the one on Asian Handicaps.

Perhaps it could be used as the basis for an article on here with comments, corrections and additions from other people? Others may find it helps them to sleep at night.

Anyway, here goes:

What is 'Dutching'?
Dutching involves backing all outcomes of an event by in order to make a profit or to at least minimise a loss during the wagering of a bonus. It is particularly useful for completing wagering at two bookies at the same time if the odds are suitable.

There are no limits to the number of 'sides' or 'ways' you can include in a dutch. So long as the market is 'complete' (ie there is an option available to bet on for each and every possible outcome), you can dutch that market.

So for example you might dutch a 2way market - ie a tennis match by backing both players to win, or an over/under 2.5 market in football by backing both over 2.5 and under 2.5 - or you might dutch a 3way market like a football result - backing each of TeamA, the draw AND TeamB - or you might even decide that you want to dutch 10way market - say by backing every single horse in a 10 horse race! Clearly the fewer outcomes there are, the easier the dutch is to do.

How do you know if a dutch is profitable?
A dutch is profitable if the reciprocal total of both odds is less than 1. The reciprocal of the odds just means 1 divided by whatever the odds are, so the reciprocal of decimal odds 2.1 is 1/2.1 and the reciprocal of decimal odds 1.8 is 1/1.8.

For instance if you saw odds of 2.1 on Team A at Book 1 and 1.8 on Team B at Book 2 then you could add the odds together. 1/2.1 (0.476) + 1/1.8 (0.555) = 1.031. This would give you a loss of 3.1% of your total stakes.

If however you found a Book 3 that had Team B at odds of 1.95 you now have:

1/2.1 (0.476) + 1/1.95 (0.513) = 0.989. This would give you a profit of 1.1% on your total stakes.

If you’re not a maths fiend and your head hurts the good news is that plenty of kind people on the internet have kindly provided dutching calculators that do all the calculations for you. You can do a Google and find loads, but the simple one I use most is here:

http://www.money-for-old-rope.co.uk/multiback.xls

The beauty with these calculators is that they calculate the stakes for you, so that the outcome in money terms is the same whatever the outcome. You choose the stake at one book and this determines the stakes at the other books. In practice it is best to round up your stakes to the nearest £ (or whatever currency you are using). If you use unusual stakes like £57.57 it is likely to flag you as a matched bettor.

If you are using an exchange to dutch with you need to remember to include commission on winnings. Fortunately the dutcher above takes care of this. Simply include the commission rate and the dutcher calculates the real rate for you.

If one of the bookies tends to limit you but you know another bookie you are using as part of the dutch will easily let you get your stake on then it is best to check by trying to place the wager at the bookie you’re unsure about first. That way if your stake is limited at the first book you can adjust your stakes elsewhere.

If you want to keep the monetary result as near as possible to exactly the same you can still even things out by using an exchange for the odd part of the dutch (e.g back the 57p at Betdaq). In practice you may well skew the dutch a bit, so that if the odds are generally particularly poor at one book you are wagering at and you are looking to move money out of that book you may dutch a bit more than the dutcher tells you to perhaps make no money or even a small loss in the good book and a bigger profit if you win at the book you would rather lose at.

Advantages

• No exchange commission when dutching between bookies.
• You may be able to dutch bets that can't be laid at exchanges due to rule differences (e.g tennis match betting) or events that aren’t covered at exchanges (e.g minor league baseball).
• Two wager requirements can be completed at the same time.
• You can bet on odds that will be cut by the time the BF market gets going. Some books (e.g Partybets/Gamebookers) seem to cut their odds as soon as they are close to those at Betfair. By dutching before the Betfair market gets going good profitable or no-loss bets can be made.

Disadvantages

• Two or more bets are required at bookmakers – unless you know your limits beforehand you may not get your stakes accepted at all bookies.
• Odds may change. The more bookies involved the more chance that one or more odds will be cut while you're placing your bets. Bookies often slash their odds so that your profitable bet can become a loss-maker. You should always have a back-up option if your bet is refused, so you can quickly adjust for a minimal loss rather than having to gamble. This might be using another book with the same or slightly worse odds or an exchange where you can lay the bet.
• There may be rules differences between bookies. For instance there may still be different rules for retirements in tennis match bets, or one site may have listed pitchers whereas the other doesn’t in baseball bets.

For dutches where there are 3 outcomes I find odds comparison websites like Bestbetting or Oddschecker very useful. In general if they quote a market as less than 100% it is likely that there is an opportunity to dutch for profit, although sometimes this figure might include the best odds to back at an exchange in which case there is commission to take into account. Another option in these cases is using the -0.5 market at asian books, but more about those later.

For dutches where there are 2 outcomes you can also use oddschecking websites or you can just compare bookies odds side by side. In order to recognise no-loss or profit-making dutches quickly without a calculator I find it is useful if you recognise the fractional form of the decimal odds you are looking at.

For instance 2.25 is 5/4 and 1.8 is 4/5. 5/4 x 4/5 = 1. This means 2.25/1.8 is a no loss dutch. Therefore if you see odds of 2.25/1.85 you have a profitable dutch.

Similarly 5.0 is 4/1 and 1.25 is 1/4. 4 x 1/4 = 1. So 5/1.25 is a no-loss dutch.
If you are using American odds it is even easier to recognise no-loss and profitable 2-way ditches. If they add up to 0 then they are no-loss if more than 0 they are profitable. For instance +200/-195 is profitable, whereas +195/-200 makes a loss.

Typical no-loss odds are shown here:

• 2/2
• 2.1/1.91
• 2.25/1.8
• 2.3/1.77
• 2.5/1.67
• 3/1.5
• 5/1.25
• 6/1.2

After a while you will come to recognise no-loss dutches automatically. If in doubt you can always try decimal odds in the dutcher and see what it calculates.

[bioboybill]

NOTE:
This post is by 'munk' as an addendum to the above:

Where are the best places to dutch at?
Typically when you're contemplating a dutch, you will be completing a wagering requirement at a specific book - call it BookA. You will usually either look for odds that seem out of line manually, or more easily you will look on an odds comparison website to find lines at BookA that are 'out of line' (ie offering good value or profitable dutching/arbing opportunities).

Once you find a selection that is out of line at BookA, typically you will then have a list of 'go to books' that you will use to dutch that selection against. Most often those 'go to books' will be asian handicappers, because they generally tend to offer the best value on almost every line they offer. It's always a good idea to have a number of 'go to books' that you can easily look at and find a good match for the other side of a dutch.

Here is a list of asian handicapping books that are useful for dutching:

• 12bet
• 188bet
• Pinnacle
• SBOBet

All of these books have excellent line management (they 'limit' the line, not the player) and so generally as a rule tend not to limit the player if they happen to have a large win (although unfortunately 12bet and 188bet are starting to limit a bit more nowadays). As a result generally you can put on larger bets here safe in the knowledge that if your bet wins, you won't be limited. This makes these books idea for dutching because the longevity of an account at these places will be much greater that an ordinary 'european' book.

Additionally because you are less likely to be limited at these books, it's very advisable to skew your bets so that you make no profit or even a slight loss if you do win at the asian book, compared to making more of a profit if you win at the non-asian book (ie the book you're trying to complete the WR/arb at). If you DO win at the asian book side, nothing lost, you're less likely to get your account limited and also these books as a rule are quite a safe place to have your money relatively speaking.

Of all the books listed above, personally (munk) I find Pinnacle perhaps the best because they often offer a large variety of spreads on the same market - so for example they often have a large number of asian lines (0 (draw no bet), 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1) ALL on the same match/market - whereas other asians like 12bet etc will often only offer one or two lines per market.

[pinkyexcel]

When dutching on three outcomes, do experienced dutchers recognise no-loss or profit-making odds or is it more complicated than that?

Also are there bookies that are known for often offering the best odds for dutching? I noticed when playing around on mbassist that 188bet and bet365 often come up in the dutching matcher, but having never tried dutching I haven't got a clue if an oddsmatcher comes anywhere close to finding odds yourself.

[Pokebus]

When dutching on three outcomes, do experienced dutchers recognise no-loss or profit-making odds or is it more complicated than that?

It makes no sense learning to sum three reciprocals in your head, it's more a question of spotting a bad line and making the most of it with a 3-way handicap combination. A straight 3-way is seldom the best option.

Also are there bookies that are known for often offering the best odds for dutching? I noticed when playing around on mbassist that 188bet and bet365 often come up in the dutching matcher, but having never tried dutching I haven't got a clue if an oddsmatcher comes anywhere close to finding odds yourself.

188bet crops up because their odds can be considered to the "proper" odds for the outcome, along with the other Asians - they only appear when the other bookie is out of line.

Bet365 fancy themselves as Asian specialists, but they're amateurs compared to the proper Asians, so have bad AH lines (and EH) quite often.

[madmick50]

I've just started dutching recently and wish I had been doing it from the day I started MB'ing. I would very strongly recommend dutching as a vital tool in our armoury. I was put off doing it as it seemed a bit too complicated and finding dutches seemed to be more trouble than it was worth. However now I have dipped my toe in the water I have found it very straightforward. I don't intend to go into graphic detail about how it all works, just to provide a simple way to get started. First thing I did was to download the Dutching calculator from Oddschecker.com (there are other calculators available from other sources as well but they all work pretty much the same). When you download it you will notice that there are 6 selection boxes available into which you can put your odds. I only use the first 2 boxes and delete the figures in the 3rd box. Next I went on the mbassist.co.uk website where he provides dutches (and also matched bets) for many of the popular and not so popular bookies. If you identify the bookie that you are looking to bust out of or meet the WR you will find many dutching opportunities. I always try to only do dutches at a level of 100% and above. But you can do them at a lesser percentage and still be better off than if you tried to MB it. A typical live example follows:

Date/Time: 04/11/2009 19:45:00
Event: Lyon v Liverpool
Lyon
Win
2.5
Go to Interwetten

Liverpool
Win +0.5
1.67
Go to 10Bet

So the above dutch tells you to back Lyon at 2.5 at Interwetten and back Liverpool at 1.67 at 10bet. At 10Bet you need to make sure you place your bet on the Asian handicap which in effect gives Liverpool a 0.5 goal start. Therefore crucially there has to be a winner of the game as a draw is not now an option. Having found this dutch you then need the Dutching calculator. I then input a figure into the Total staked box and the calculator then tells me how much to put on each team. If I put in a total stake of £100 then the calculator tells me to wager £40.05 on Lyon and £59.95 on Liverpool. I would then be left wit a £0.12 profit regardless of the result. In reality I would round up or down the £40.05 to £40 and the £59.95 to £60 to stop the bookies thinking anything fishy was going on. Depending on the outcome of the match I could either bust out of one bookie or meet part of a wagering requirement without losing any of my bonus to Betfair commission if I did a matched bet. Certain bookies e.g Interwetten, 188bet, 10bet aren't great at finding matches but are very good for dutching using the Asian handicap. Also some of the WR's can be quite a slog so at least if you are not losing any commission to Betfair you will keep most if not all of your bonus intact. I would recommend starting of at low stakes till you get the hang of it. Hope this helps get you started if you've been wondering what to do. I'm sure there are many fellow contributors who will also be able to help with any queries this thread may provoke.

[Gibber]

Good post mick, and fully agree I would have rather learned to dutch prior to backing and laying. There is already an excellent thread with regard to asians here, check it out:

http://www.thegamblingtimes.com/boar...roduction.html

[musicbox]

Thanks Mick, I'll move this into the dutching guide which is already a sticky thread in the general support area as it's more in keeping with that section than the bonus section.

[U4EA]

Disclaimer: I am a newbie to dutching, having only started doing in the last few weeks after BlowingBubbles enlightened me (and after months of nagging by P1nkPrincess!)

I now bring this enlightenment forwards, towards other TGT Brethren.

Matched Betting Survival Course 101: Defeat any potential commission attacks by arming yourself with the most basic of dutches - the 1x2 vs +0.5!

It's pretty simple - instead of laying a backed bet, it's better to back it at an Asian book on the +0.5 market as you have less liability and commission to deal with.

How does it work? Simple - you take the 1X2 market and take a team (usually the favourite), and back them. Now, instead of going to lay the said team, you should look to back the other team on the +0.5 market. Backing +0.5 is essentially adding half a goal onto that teams score, therefore eliminating the chance of a draw.



As you can see, the actual score of the game is changed by backing team B on Asian Handicap +0.5 to give a modified score, eliminating the draw and guaranteeing a win.

Now lets take a look at a real-world example...

Jumping on an odds comparison site, we do a seach for Interwetten against BetDaq. From the results, we have this...



So, using, the Iceland vs Luxembourg as our example, lets confirm the back and lay prices at IW and BetDaq.





So, the prices are confirmed.

Although you would never get this much on at IW, lets use the nice round figure of £100.00 as our back stake.

Backing £100 at 1.90 and laying at 1.93 with 3% comm at BetDaq requires a lay stake of £100.00. This results in a loss of £3.00 and carries a liability of £93.00.

Another option is to dutch it. So lets look at what price SBOBet are offering Luxembourg (AH +0.5) at...



And we see we can back at 2.11. PLEASE ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU ARE BACKING THE RIGHT TEAM AND MAKE SURE THE MARKET IS +0.5 AND NOT -0.5. +0.5 IS REPRESENTED IN THE SCREEN SHOT AS :0.5 OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE :-0.5.

So backing Iceland at £100, we can back Luxembourg at 2.11, with a stake of £90.05. SBOBet actually only allows bets in round pounds, so we will round down to £90. Instead of a loss of £3, we now have either no loss or a loss of £0.10, depending which side wins. Additionally, backing the other side at an Asian book eliminates liability.

So, that's pretty much it. As always, play around a bit, ask questions etc until you are confident. I would recommend starting with smaller stakes and not betting too close to kick-off as well in case of prices moving (which can seem harsher at books than exchanges).


Chewy Animal Thingy approves of 1X2 vs +0.5 dutching.

[Nintendo2k]

Just a quick add-in.. if you want to get a more comprehensive look at available AH+0.5 odds you should sign up to oddsoddsodds. You can view individiual matches and individual markets for them. I don't think they have SBO, but they have 188 and pinnacle. By using oddsoddsodds (or a similar site!) you can view the odds from 25-ish bookies at the same time. Odds may not be 100% up to date though when KO is approaching.

[Pokebus]

SBOBet actually only allows bets in round pounds, so we will round down to £90.

Bear in mind that you can switch to Malay odds (at SBO) and get a better price if it's above evens. Your 2.11 in Malay is -0.90 or 2.1111, you can use this to improve your arb, or to get it closer to your rounded stake if you're bothered about this (I'm not). With Malay over evens you bet win not risk, so divide your calculated stake by [minus odds], in this case 0.90. It's often better than that though.