Originally Posted by munk
The issue appears to be withdrawal of large balances in the pm only to redeposit it am next day....moneybookers %1 promo?
That's what I thought might have happened at first but according to kamoon said he said he deposited £30, went on a winning spree and then was told he'd have money taken away from him if he wanted to withdraw to cover the moneybookers fees. Look above there's a post by kamoon with his transaction history and you can see what happened.
Originally Posted by kram766
From looking at the transaction history it looked to me like he had made a few deposits & withdrawals. I presume 'lodgement/withdrawal transfer from tracking account' is when there has either been a deposit or withdrawal? In which case a deposits made & then a couple of bets are made & then a withdrawal & then a few days later the same happens again...
Originally Posted by munk
I still don't think this means betdaq should be able to take his money though, as they should of had that term shown clearly in there T&C's
Hi looked through the statement and tbh i think you got off lightly , lodging money over 1k not turning it over and then withdrawing , betdaq have to pay fees on money to send it and imo you paid a small price for taking the p*ss for moneybookers promo or whatever you were doing , why lodge 1700 and 1400 within a couple of days not turn it over and then withdraw?? Get over it and move on
Depends what you mean by turning it over - laying a correct score at odds of about 90 is going to need the kind of liability which he lodged, so he may well have 'risked' most of it. I agree that it is taking the p*ss nevertheless, but he may not have thought the costs through properly i.e. I reckon that he genuinely didn't know, which is the problem I have with what Daq did; they should have at least given him a proper warning. That said, having just looked at the statement again, I see that they did initially reject his withdrawal, and under those circumstances he should have waited for a reply and a 'go ahead' from them before resubmitting. Again this is all hindsight, and I think both sides overreacted. I wouldn't have done what he did, but I have to deal with Daq, not kamoon, and the way they seem to have behaved is what matters here; it's well and truly freaked me out, especially as it took a second request by me before they would tell me that I could withdraw without penalty.
Originally Posted by LFC81Eoin
I want to be able to deal with an exchange like Daq without this kind of concern. I don't want to be the one to find that they have other rules like this hidden away somewhere, and the only way that I discover it is when I lose money. All that boils down to me using them a lot less.
Eoin I think he's layed his bets on long shots. Like at odds of 70 or something like that. I have only just taken a look at the transaction list for the first time now and whilst it does seem a little silly to me withdrawing over £1k and then redepositing over £1k a couple of times. I guess if you are mugging that amount it would be the same as backing over £1k at 1.02 and then withdrawing. So I do think he has fully used his balance in his wagers.
If he was planning on betting the next day at high amounts the withdrawals do seem a bit foolish, but if he is mugging and risking over £1k theres an awful lot of emotion that goes along with that and I can imagine kamoon wanting his cash back in his pocket and withdrawing without thinking of any consequences for betdaq. And then maybe the next day he gets the urge to risk it again.
It's not a healthy way of gambling, but people do do this. If this is what you have done kamoon then I think you should by all means do what you can to try and recoup your fees and just take IBAS's decision as gospel. Either way, it's not worth getting upset over.
You live and learn.
munk, I was not told I would suffer the fee if I withdrew. The money was taken and only after taking it, they told me the reason. Not in advance. That's the single most biggest reason why I got so pissed off with them.
I always risked my money for at least once before attempting a withdrawal. Like said, laying a correct score bet needs a huge liability. I wasn't doing it for the Moneybookers 1% promo (for which I have not opted in) but to just lay a freebet backed elsewhere.
Betdaq has told me they will not discuss this issue with me anymore. SBR also contacted them on behalf of me but Betdaq never replied to them either. Good luck with you all betting with firms like Betdaq in the future who don't even bother to discuss with a watchdog like SBR.
Edit: CountryLad, I waited a day for them to tell me the reason for rejecting my first withdrawal after attempting the second withdrawal. After that time it seemed obvious to me that they weren't going to tell me the reason for rejecting it so I made the withdrawal again and asked them for the reason.
Deposit £1k for £100 bonus! One bonus per household!
Mr A deposits and gets his £100 bonus. Mrs A (wife) deposits and the company refuses the bonus. The couple appeared to try and abuse the site/bonus. The company acted correctly.
Mrs A logs in the following day to find no money in her account. She asks why and the company directs her to a term in the help section which says they reserve the right to keep deposits where they believe a promotion has been abused.
This is a very exaggerated fictitious comparison but the point is the same; is it not the case that you either believe it is ok for Betdaq to enact a 'term' in their help section which allows for the removal of funds from a player's account without warning or you don't? What kamoon has or hasn't done does not alter the fact this is what they are doing and whilst I understand people can have different opinions on his actions, I do not understand how any opinion equates to Betdaq being exonerated from their own responsibilities to their customers.
Betdaq are left claiming it's a customer's responsibility to contact them for terms yet at the same time isn't it obvious it's their responsibility to not bury said 'term' in a help section? Surely it's not hard to link to the term and to have them in the terms section? It would be in customer's interests to do so even if it was hard! And let's face it, even when you've actually read the term, you still have to contact Betdaq to find out how it affects your account since you do not know how much it costs them in fees to accept MB deposits.
If your actual terms (the ones in the t&c section) say you will, where possible, inform of charges on a player's account then shouldn't you enact that term in this case? Considering they've not done anything to avoid customers having to use customer service time to understand (or find) the terms, I can't see how it's too much to expect a quick email to inform kamoon of the situation - a situation which could have been so easily resolved without any of this.
Can anyone see any measure Betdaq has taken to avoid this happening again? Can anyone say Betdaq came out of this looking good? And for what? €65.65. Very bizarre.
Yesterday I did what Betdaq appears to expect customers to do and enquired about the t&cs for Moneybookers deposits. I said I couldn't find the terms which was the case when I originally looked when this thread was created.
I was hoping that, by contacting them directly about this issue, they would not only tell me where to find the terms but to also put meaning to them since a customer cannot be expected to know the cost of fees Betdaq incurs upon MB deposits and that's vital for any customer to be able to understand the term:
Unless otherwise stated in the deposits page on the website, BETDAQ will absorb the cost of all fees subject to the members total commission paid being equal or greater than the cost of the fees.
Today they replied by stating how to find the terms (by going to the help section and searching for Moneybookers). So one email down and I'm still no further in knowing how the term may impact on my account.
In my second email I pointed to said term and asked if I was able to calculate this term myself or if I needed to contact them. I also asked if the term meant that if my commission was less than the fees that they would adjust my account or whether they would inform me first.
"Your commission paid can always been viewed on your account statement, however feel free to contact us for any information you require.
If you are ever unsure please contact us before you make a withdrawal and Our Finance Team will look into it for you."
So there you have it... not only could I not originally find the term but two emails later I still have no way to calculate it and it will be a third email before withdrawal before they reveal the situation to me.
If that's acceptable to Betdaq I'm shocked.
That's pretty similar to the response that I got to my first email, which amounted to little more than a cut and paste from the Moneybookers deposit help page, despite asking in my first email for what my position was 'specifically'. I did get a satisfactory response to my second, quite strongly worded mail, which confirmed correctly that I was free to withdraw. I do not, however, agree with the numbers that they quoted, and suspect that the CS agent did little other than guestimate my position. However the key point, that I was free to withdraw without penalty, was stated in that second email.