Where did you learn to do the ratings?
Or what are the ratings based on? Is there a guide somewhere to make sense of Smarkets at 10 and ComeOn at 8.
I know this post is not going to make me any new friends around here, but this forum has a good thing going and you're going to ruin it for yourself (the forum's owner/s) and all your members if you start to push with higher ratings companies that you have particular deals with.
Just my two cents.
Ratings on based on the experience of users on here and also of the moderators and such like.. It has nothing to do with any deals. We are always reviewing them and they can go up and down.. for instance all US books recently went down due to the involvement of the FBI with sites such Full Tilt..
It is a huge range of things each given a different weighting and it is very hard to actually compare and contrast sometimes.
Originally Posted by pier0
Overall the most important factor is the stability of the site and the likelihood of people being paid because for all the best odds, best bonuses, and best most friendly and responsive customer service in the World if you dont get paid then that is all fairly academic (one particular site springs to mind there).
Coupled with that though and we would rank alongside it is a sites integrity, who is running it and do we trust them? After the Betfair Casino theft in Nov 2010 we felt we could not have them as a 10* site anymore because of the way they acted, they dropped to 6* initially which was now behind Betdaq and Smarkets. Being realistic if you stick to the Sportsbook and only use the exchange as a normal punter is Betfair less stable than those? No probably not but we still dropped them because our view is they cannot be trusted they stole a lot of money from people I consider my friends and it might not be much but it was the best we could do and at least it was something.
To be fair the Smarkets deal probably was a factor, that was the deal in return for 1% commission, for the whole year, for ALL TGT Premium Members, and starting immediately not a tiered scheme as more join in (all my proposals) the return offer had to include "Smarkets will be on the homepage and listed first as a 10* site". That was just the cost of doing business. BUT I would do it again, without that there may have been no Smarkets deal and it was a price worth paying.
Originally Posted by bella
Just to quickly list some of the other criteria it is things like customer service levels (do they have live chat/ is it 24/7) do they actually know what they are doing/talking about and can they actually help you do what you need to be done.
Payments are looked at ie the times taken to pay up, the methods they support, how much ID faffing is there, is there any charges, etc etc.
If its a Sportsbook the range of markets they cover, which sports so do they have Horse Racing, do they have live betting, the overall odds they offer, the amount of money they will actually take on a bet, how long until they limit you, how likely are they to Palp, etc etc
If its a Casino what games, what limits, are they fun (Microgaming slots are great, Playtech are boring as paint drying, etc)
Bonuses and Promotions, how often, how many, how good...
There might be more I have forgotten just now but you can see how with that many different factors, comparing two sites into a 1 - 10 scale and saying which is "best" is not easy. You can pick any two you want I will find something in one of them better than the other and vice versa.
A key point as Bella alludes to above is that it is based on our actual experiences, nowhere gets a review unless we have played there with our own money first, we do put our money where our mouths are. From that point on they are adjusted purely based on any official (ie Govt) announcements and player reports we get sent in either directly via the watchdog complaints or monitoring the payout times threads, etc etc. There is over 150 I think getting on for 200 though so we are realistic they will not be as accurate as we would like I am sure you can pick holes in them no problem at all, but we do our best.
If you ever think a review is incorrect or have a comment we do ask at the top of them all:
So please do E-mail in that would be very usefull. From your examples I dont think Smarkets will be moving but what is wrong with ComeOn being 8*s? Please E-mail us about that seperately. It is impossible for us to change the reviews unless people actually tell us they are wrong. Quite recently it was very frustrating to be told by several people they had had GetWin seize funds so we lowered them a few notches, then ALL these people I knew about had the funds repaid so fair enough the review went back up a notch thats how it works we respond to actions. THEN someone who had NEVER once E-mailed or PM'd us, EVER, at all, complained why are we having GetWin so high they are theives and still have his money. Well that may be so and we can look at it again but seriously if he has never once mentioned this to us ever then how did he expect us to know!
Went on a bit there, overall thought is I fully agree with you the reviews will never ever be 100% accurate, and as much as a 10* appears safe one day it can still turn bad (Betfair/FullTilt ) it is constantly changing so please please do tell us when it is wrong that is the only tool we have.
Have a plan and stick to it
Think anyone could see it was
Originally Posted by bella
Think the problem is the integrity of the TGT rating system, how do we know any of the other ratings are correct? IMO its better to have an honest and unbiased rating system then cheaper commission, but I can see why you did it and at least many are benefiting. However I can see potential new members being put off TGT, if I was to go to a random gambling website and saw smarkets rated at 10/10 ahead of other solid bookmakers I wouldn't give that site any more of my time.
Originally Posted by Andy
When a bookie is rated 10 on TGT I avoid (serious)
Well S Markets isnt a bookie for a start, its a betting exchange. As such you wont have problems with bonuses, w/r, of c/s trying to find reasons not to pay you, that in itself is worth a few extra points.
They gave us a good deal, a very good deal, and as far as I know, no-one has had any problems with payouts, or the settlement of the bets. The owners even make the effort to post on the forum and answer questions. Even without the deal they would surely have scored well.
Beating Bookies since March 2006
Thanks Andy for being honest about the Smarkets deal and in part proving my point.
I don't want to make this a case against Smarkets, as I met the founder a couple of times and he seems a very nice guy (even though by his own admission on stage at a recent tech event, the company is not exactly crushing it). Nor against ComeOn, where one of their managers is a personal friend.
I used them as examples because they were mentioned in the latest newsletter.
The only suggestion I have (if I may) is to rate the deals, which seems what the members here value anyway.
On a specialized forum like TGT no one in his right state of mind can possibly believe that those ratings are accurate if they refer to the overall experience, applying the criteria listed above in relation to safety of players funds, which I imagine being a concern for professional bettors.
Even the bookmaker sites will have to realize that coming to market and have a top rating is not realistic. Ultimately it may even damage them as this is no TV or newspaper where viewers (possibly) don't know any better.
Igaming media have the duty to be fair and unbiased. Only that will guarantee that this industry that is about to go through a lot of changes in the next few years doesn't go back to the far west it once was.
Just noticed that Pinnacle Sports is only rated a six? Any particular reason for that since it seems they have excellent odds, extremely fast payouts, extremely hard to get limited, solid as a rock etc? Only bad thing I can think of really would be that the site reliability isn't excellent, but it's not terrible unless you need to be on the site 24/7.
Think it got downgraded to a '6' with the recent troubles with US facing books. More a representation of that, rather than any trouble with Pinnies, as far as I know.
Originally Posted by dark_knight
Can't really see why that would be an issue bearing in mind they are based in Curacao and don't actually accept players from the US - Pinnies play by the rules.
Originally Posted by Dazed1979