INTERVIEW WITH BOOKMAKERS REVIEW FOUNDER "PIERLUIGI BUCCIOLI".

Welcome to the latest Industry Interview from thegamblingtimes.com.  This month we speak with Pierluigi Buccioli, founder of Bookmakers Review and CEO of Domain Invest Ltd which last year launched GamblingInvest.com, a marketplace for premium gambling domains.

Q: Pierluigi, can you begin by telling us a little about your background and by giving us a brief overview of the history of Bookmakers Review?

A: I was a recreational gambler, mostly horse racing and soccer, since my late teens and at the end of 2001 I started trading on Betfair. At that time, I was also a moderator of the bookmakers section of a very popular Italian betting forum and I was getting requests from players to help them contact online bookmakers all the time. Mostly it was because I spoke English and those Italian players needed someone to translate, but several of them had what we would call today, legitimate complaints.

Players asking for assistance continued to increase and I could not find much help or info online, as the only site that back then provided information about online bookmakers and bookmaker complaints, SBR, was totally US-centric. So at the end of 2003 I registered the domain bookmakersreview.com and the following summer started working on it with a friend. The site launched in November 2004 and the rest as they say is history.

Q: I’ve read that you traded for a living for a period, are you still betting or trading etc?

A: Not anymore. The way I used to trade horse races on Betfair required a lot of mental energies and these days I would not be able to do it properly. My techniques still work though as I've recently taught a friend of mine and noticed that despite all the new people who have started trading using one of the several applications available today, the markets still work pretty much the same as they did 8 years ago. Just consider that back then, the most advanced tool we had was a script to refresh the Betfair page once every second. :)

Q: What was the vision of BMR when you started?  Did you foresee it staying around so long and it becoming a full-time job?

A: My plan when I started was to create a useful resource for European bettors. I was hoping the site could stay around, but I was thinking more in terms of a hobby. I didn't really know what to expect in terms of a business and I definitely never thought that it was going to become a full-time job. As a matter of fact for the first few years I didn't even have banners or affiliate deals, which in retrospect I believe it probably helped me being accepted by the industry.

Q: On the About Us, it says BMR is a group – are you able to talk about anyone else who may help with the site?

A: At the origin of BMR, there were two other people who were involved in the day-to-day running of the site, but this was at the very beginning. Over the years, there are have been few people that have helped me dealing with players complaints, but these days I'm the only one players speak to, even though there are two full time employees who help me running the site, mainly for the technical and business part.

The reason I never changed the presentation is because there really are a group of players who help me regularly with the ratings by providing feedback and links to relevant info such as forum discussions and news.  As a matter of fact, the new BMR site I've been working on for the last two years and that I was hoping to launch this summer, will offer all players who are interested in the rating/review process a chance to be part of it.  But more about it in due time.

Q: Before players write to BMR or a regulator, they will often contact the bookmaker directly to try to resolve a problem.  With that in mind, what would be your “Dos and Don’ts” for players contacting a bookmaker in the case of a dispute?

A: The first thing to do for a player is to find out what terms may influence his complaint.  Never contact a bookmaker saying “I did nothing wrong”. Try to understand the reason the bookmaker took a certain action and see what rules (if any) give them that chance.  If a bookmaker didn't provide a specific reason, make sure you ask them for one.  Bookmakers often use the “throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick” technique, making up reasons for voiding bets or closing accounts along the way, until they find one that works.  This technique works, most of the times, because players rarely read the rules and they go by what they think is right. But if a player is familiar with the bookmaker's rules, it may be more complicate for the bookmaker to claim the player broke a rule that possibly doesn't even apply to the situation.

When contacting a bookmaker, if customer service representatives are not helpful, ask to speak or be put in touch with a manager.   While I personally prefer email to phone calls, as they are more difficult to retract, some times calling and speaking on the phone, possibly with the person in charge, is extremely effective (again for some reasons in the age of Skype I hear players often saying they do not want to call because phone is too expensive).  Either way, make sure to be proactive, which doesn't mean necessarily sending an email every ten minutes to ask the same questions over and over again. Just do not wait weeks to get started.

Always keep your cool. You want the bookmaker to know that you won't give up and that you will eventually contact the licensing authority,  IBAS, even BMR, SBR and all the major forums, but do not make it sound like you are challenging them.  If you are owed money, ask the bookmaker if they have any available method to send the payment immediately. I've seen players losing their entire balances because they didn't accept an alternative payment method such as a bank transfer or Western Union. If a bookmaker has cash flow problems, my recommendation is to accept whatever type of payment method they offer (if any), even the fees are more expensive that what you would normally pay. Take your money and run.

Q: What are the most common types of complaint that you receive at Bookmakers Review?

A: The large majority of complaints BMR receive are payment-related. Not only involving new and/or not-rated bookmakers: probably as much as 20% of payment related complaints involve bookmakers who have been in the Red list forever, confirming how few players consult BMR and other similar resources before opening a betting account.

Q: Can you give us an estimate of how many legitimate (deemed by yourself!) complaints you receive on average each month?

A: If we exclude complaints about slow pays and no pays, I would say as much as 50-60 complaints every month are legitimate and they are about voided bets/palpable error, bonuses and in the last year lots of live betting.  Payment complaints are different as every time a bookmaker goes out of business I get lots of complaints generally concentrated in 2-3 weeks. For Playbanks when the LGA asked me to put together a list of players and I published the article, I received something like 120 emails in two days. With Betchance, I received as much as 10-20 complaints every day for weeks.

Q: Do you know (roughly) how many times you’ve been able to help a player get a resolution to a legitimate complain over the years?

A: I've never kept count, but an educated guess would be an average of 2-3 complaints solved every week. This again doesn't include payment-related complaints where most of the times there is not much I can do, especially if the bookmaker has gone out of business like the two mentioned above.  And again there are many complaints out of the 50-60 I mentioned before that I consider legitimate and solved, but not in the classic sense of getting a resolution in favor of the player.

A legitimate complaint could come from a player who doesn't understand why the bookmaker took a certain action so he complains. In these cases all I have to do is explain the player what he did wrong.  An example could be a player who got a bonus but doesn't understand the wagering requirements so he asks for payment before completing the rollover and when the bookmaker doesn't send him the money, the player submits a complaint saying he's not getting paid.  Most of the times with this type of complaint, after I explain the player what the problem is, they seem to understand and accept it (in the example above the player would go on to finish the rollover and then ask for payment again).  Then there  is always someone who does not want to accept the rules he agreed to when opening the account, but that's another story.

Q: With Advantage Players often less risk-averse with choosing gaming sites in order to get bonuses, have you noticed more complaints do come from Advantage Players nowadays?

A: Let me start by saying that from my point of view an online gambler cannot call himself an advantage player unless he understands (and accepts) the risk vs reward proposition (I bet with Bookmaker A offering large bonuses and/or opinionated odds knowing that the risk of losing my money is higher than with Bookmaker B running a recreational shop).  In my experience though, there are many online gamblers that by general definition could be considered advantage players because they are arbitrageurs and/or matched bettors and/or sharp bettors, that do not understand risk vs reward.  Probably they know how to find and create a sure bet position or how to match the sign-up bonus on Betfair, but when the bookmaker operating with a very risky model goes out of business, they seem surprised that a site with a license, a nice online presence, recommended by popular gambling portals, has disappeared with their funds.

So to answer your question: yes, this type of players submit a large number of complaints.  But I do not believe that these players are really less risk-averse. In my opinion, to be less risk-averse a player needs first to understand (and accept) risk. While it seems to me that many “advantage players” are really just following what appears to be a general trend (this one caused by the economic downturn) where more and more people every day are looking for ways to make extra money.  In this contest, matched betting, bonus hunting, arbitrage and even exchange trading are carried out as techniques to make extra money by people that do not have a complete grasp of the risks involved.  And when problems arise, the advantage player submits feedback, the “advantage players” submit complaints.

Q: As well as your review policy, do you use sites like TGT, MSE, SBR etc. to monitor player experiences and to help with ratings or articles?

A: Of course. Online gambling fora are a major source of information. As long as you can read through the posts.  We all know that certain bookmakers attract more “complaints” than the average, some because target mainly the recreational market and those customers often don't understand the basics of online gambling, while other are often the subjects of complaints from players who may not always be in the right if their entire story is told.  So my first statement should really read gambling fora are excellent sources of information, as long as people reading them have an idea of who (and why) is saying what.  Having started posting on the forums back in 2001, I believe to be a good judge of online persona and in most cases I can make my mind up pretty quick whether the player posting has a valid complaint  or  he's just venting  his frustrations or thinking that by exposing  a bookmaker on a forum he will get his “problem” sorted.

Q: It’s not just rogue bookmakers who bring about complaints, right?!  Can you tell us about one or two instances where a reputable bookmaker has made a decision which left you scratching your head?

A: There have been quite a few disputes over the years involving high-rated bookmakers where the bookmaker was in the wrong. On a case I'm still working on, I've seen Blue Square sending customized emails to players offering a cashback bonus and later tell  non-recreational players they are not entitled to the cashback.  Why then contact them in the first place? Is it too complicated to sort non recreational players from recreational players and send the email only to the latest? Apparently for Blue Square it is.

Q: Readers of BMR will know of your dissatisfaction with how the Lotteries and Gaming Authority (LGA) operates in its licensing and regulation of gaming in Malta.  What kind of changes do you think the LGA must go through to make having a Maltese gaming license appear a symbol of a trustworthy, stable gaming site?

A: Malta has a very good igaming regulations. On paper.  But it is my opinion that as long as the people who are supposed to oversee the licensed operators have strong interests within the industry itself, as part-owners of industry service providers and consultants,  Malta will remain a much hyped igaming jurisdiction doing lots of business and money for its stakeholders, but absolutely nothing for the players.  Personally I believe that is not going to happen any time soon. Obviously all it counts for them is who will pay taxes and fees next year, not who has gone offline with players funds and won't be paying taxes nor fees anymore.

According to Malta's igaming regulations, an online betting operator to receive a Maltese license must undergo rigorous due diligence checks and demonstrate business, financial and technical ability.  But just look at the number of Maltese companies providing services to wannabe igaming entrepreneurs and think why would an operator that is fit and proper as requested by law need a consultant of some sort  to help him obtain a license?  Could it be that some licensees don't have all the abilities listed above and these “consultants” help guaranteeing that a license is granted? This is more than a possibility.

Q: Do you think it’s to the detriment of any site acting with integrity (such as Betsson who you have on your Green List) to be licensed by the LGA because of other companies slow-paying or failing completely?

A: The large majority of online gamblers (I'm talking millions) do not read BMR, TGT or other sites where they would find certain information.  Actually I believe that the very large majority don't even pay attention where a bookmaker is licensed.  So the answer to your question is no.  Personally I would like to see  the  major Maltese operators like Betsson, Unibet, Expekt and Interwetten take a stand, but again is not going to happen. The only chance is that as other jurisdictions introduce player protection rules such as the Isle of Man did recently with ring-fenced accounts, and if recreational players finally start requesting online bookmakers to do more to guarantee the protection of their deposits ad winnings , some  operators may finally get a sense and start putting pressure on Maltese regulators to enforce the rules that already exist.   But it is a very remote chance as online bookmakers in general and Maltese bookmakers in particular are not class conscious and do not see necessary to defend the reputation of the industry at large.

Q: How do you think BMR is viewed by the bookmaking industry?

A:  I may not be the best person to answer this. :)  When I speak to online bookmakers they all say they appreciate the work BMR does. Some of them went as far as say that a site like BMR is a must to keep the industry in check. But whether they really mean that or they are just trying to be nice, I can't say as I've had a couple of experiences where the same people went on from saying how good BMR was to calling me names.  Apparently they  liked when I reported other companies problems, but didn't appreciate when I wrote about the companies they worked for.

Q: Have you formed relationships with particular companies over the years which may be more likely to co-operate than others when it comes to a reported dispute?

A: At the very beginning it was hard to get answers, let alone to have bookmakers look into complaints,  but these days all bookmakers, including many Red-listed ones (that are still operating), will at least look into the complaint that I submit to them.  Even when a bookmaker doesn't answer an email, when they see their names on the homepage of BMR, many of them offer to discuss the cases.  Amongst the good bookmakers, a lot comes down to the relationships that I built with their managers over the years. For example there was a case a couple of months ago where 188Bet started asking players for proofs of income and after speaking to their top management they reviewed the policy because they realized that over time it would have tarnished their reputation with customers.

Q: Are there sites which flat-out refuse to co-operate (thinking here of those we might think of as pretty reputable rather than the Red List kind of sites) – I’ve noticed Betfair often cite Data Protection when SBR try to contact them; is that the kind of thing you sometimes run into as well?

A: In my experience, there are no sites that flat out refuse to co-operate. There are many that flat out refuse to answer though.:)  But that's because they either are total scams or have serious financial problems.  Of the respectable sites, I'm confident of being able to get an answer from any of them (I said an answer, not a positive solution).  But then again I probably have a different vision of what co-operating means. In the case you mentioned between SBR and Betfair, while I'm not familiar with the details of the complaints, I seem to understand that SBR believes that because they are running a popular rating site  everyone has to share player's info with them.  That in my opinion is delusional and shows a very limited understanding of laws that in certain countries regulate both the online gambling industry and access to people private information.

I'll tell you more: I personally believe that is a good thing that respectable sites do not share private information with third parties. In almost seven years of Bookmakers Review, there are have been very few cases (that I remember) where the bookmaker providing “proofs” has made (or would have made) any difference.  When there is fraud or account abuse, there is no way that a bookmaker is going to share that info with a gambling portal. For those cases, it all comes down to whether you trust the respectable bookmaker and the manager you are speaking to, who you may have possibly known for years or give credit to the player, who in case is a fraudster has nothing to lose and lying is his job.

Going back to the example you made, if SBR believes that there is a chance the players may be right and Betfair is wrong by not sharing the information, they should downgrade Betfair.  That's what ratings are for.  But since that didn't happen and  despite people at SBR are known to live delusion of grandeur, I'm sure that they know better than thinking that Betfair stole money from some players accounts.  The SBR video and article about Betfair were nothing more than a link bait, And it worked as we are talking about it.

Q: Do you sometimes attend industry conferences and get to mix?

A: I attended my first conference in 2005. It was the ICE. Since then I regularly attend all the major industry's events: CAP, ICE, Affiliate Conference, EiG and all the igaming social that in London take place every other month.

Q: Do you find it difficult to be 100% unbiased, or to be perceived as 100% unbiased, when you are both a reviewer of bookmakers and an affiliate of some of them too?

A: Personally I don't have a problem to be 100% unbiased, but at the same time I understand why players do not believe that gambling affiliates are 100% unbiased.  And there is very good reason for it: most gambling portals are not unbiased.  When an affiliate receives money upfront or cuts special deals where he gets paid more from certain bookmakers, he agrees to provide the bookmaker a service, including telling fairy tales to players that that bookmaker is the best one and safest in the world.  If an affiliate make the business choice of operating that way, he cannot be unbiased nor he should be offended if someone reminds him of that.

In my case, all I can say, is that I've normal affiliate deals with all the major bookmakers and that readers can easily look at 5 years of ratings to find that not only BMR recommended bookmakers have never gone out of business or disappeared with players funds, but also that every single time a recommended bookmaker has had a problem, which I have been made aware of, it has been reported and the bookmaker has eventually been removed from the Green list. I'm thinking  Canbet, Unibet, Expekt and the one above about Blue Square. I've been offered, multiple times, money from bookmakers that wanted a higher rating or a place in the Green list and I never accepted it for the very simple reason that there are many online bookmakers and chances to make a profit as an affiliate, but I've only got one face.  I want BMR ratings to become an accepted benchmark to judge online bookmakers for both players and industry operators alike. And I want to remain in this business for the long term. So I'm not going to risk to lose my face and with it my credibility just to make a quick buck.

Q: You’re now expanding to get involved in the casino side of things with your new site Casinos Review.  Tell us about that.

A:  A couple of years after launching Bookmakers Review, I started receiving casino complaints, but because of the different aspects compared to sports betting complaints and limited time, I could never assist any of those players. All  I could do was point them to CasinoMeister and other popular casino forums.  Then as BMR readers kept asking about casino ratings and I realized that despite many respected portals and forums providing online casino news and assistance to players, there is no casino site with reliable casino ratings, I decided that if I could find someone familiar with the online casino industry sharing my same ideas and views, I would have give it a go.

Casinos Review is launching a beta version this week.  I guess time will tell if Casinos Review will be able to establish itself as a respectable resource in a market where there are many well known and long established casino portals, but in the past few months while I was researching online casinos to derive the initial ratings I found  again the enthusiasm I had few years ago when I started BMR. And that is a nice feeling.

Q: Turning now to the bigger picture of the global economic downturn, has it been noticeable to you that it has impacted heavily on the gambling industry?  And when a gaming company is in financial trouble, what are usually the key indicators players may be able to spot?

A: In my experience the global economic downturn didn't have much of an impact over online gambling. This summer, the World Cup broke all records for a betting event by many times over. Surely some gambling products like poker have slowed down in the last couple of years, but that was mostly because poker had experienced an incredible growth in the previous 5 years and a stabilization of the market was physiological.

Indicators of problems: there are many of them. Most notably payment delays or the cancellation of some payment methods, but also a drop in the customer service's quality and an increase in bonus offers. When you see an online bookmaker that has been around for one year or more and that is well past the launch phase, suddenly offering large bonuses to both new and existing customers, some times accompanied by opinionated odds in popular sports, you can be pretty sure that they need to raise money to run the business.  And when a bookmaker starts spending betting deposits to pay salaries, rent or any other business expense, is just a matter of time before the troubled bookmaker goes offline.

Q: But some people feel more companies have been going bust lately?

A: I don't believe online bookmakers going bust recently have anything to do with the economic downturn. More online bookmakers have gone bust because more people start these web sites thinking that all it takes to make money is to go online with a gambling site.  A year later when the marketing budget has been spent, they have no recreational customers, all advantage players have eventually left and with them the illusion of having a customer base, that's when most of these companies turn into scams and eventually go bust.

Q: Finally, as we alluded  to in our introduction, the entrepreneurial spirit evident in your creation of BMR has also led to other ventures such as GamblingInvest.com.  Can you tell us a little about that side of your work?

A: A few years ago I started buying domains that I intended to used to create new web sites, but as the time didn't permit me to do much on that front, when I started receiving offers for some of them, I realized there was a market for gambling domains. Even though the live auction at least year's Budapest Affiliate Conference was a total failure and I've seen it listed on a domainer blog as the worst domain auction of all times, I still think there is a serious opportunity for a domain aftermarket specialized in gambling domains. But probably it won't be gamblinginvest.com :)

TGT would like to thank Pierluigi for taking the time to share his views with us and we wish him continued success with his ventures.  As well as the websites we have linked to above, you can follow Pierluigi on Twitter here: http://twitter.com/pier0

You can discuss this interview on the forum here:

Until next time!

Team TGT